Medium pace ride Sunday 9th July

The coffee stop for this Sunday's ride is The George & Dragon at Quainton (20 miles). I was going to(and still can) stop at Stratton Audley Barn at about 30 miles but think we will arrive before it opens at 11 am if we ride at our usual 16+mph average. Perhaps you can let me know what you think.

The route will be Buckingham, Gawcott, Lenborough, Padbury, Steeple Claydon, Middle Claydon, East Claydon, Winslow, Granborough, North Marston, Oving, Whitchurch, Pitchcott, Quainton (20 miles), Edgcott, Marsh Gibbon, Stratton Audley (30 miles), Fringford, Cottisford, Evenly, Mixbury, Shalstone, Chackmore, Buckingham.

Look forward to seeing you there,

Guy

Distance: 48 miles
Ascent: 2015 feet
Speed: 16 mph
Cake: Lots of it at either stop
Song: 99 red balloons c/o Paul Tinsley if he's there.

Route link: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/course/15676429

Guy

I may ride, but back to the old, dropping off at some stage!! This time, quite early and likely to be at Steeple Claydon.

I think you may find that the song for this week is "You spin me right round baby right round...."

With that in mind, I am looking forward to Sunday even more.....like a record baby, right round, right round

This was on the radio on Tuesday Paul.

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As you know the committee will be looking at the results of the ride speed survey at the meeting next week. I'm keen for a bit of additional feedback/thoughts particularly from the current medium group to help with the review please.

This morning's "medium" ride was way beyond the current ride band of 14-16mph and at 17mph+ met the banding for fast. Reading the initial post about the route this looks like it was expected/planned.

Obviously running the medium ride way above the advertised band is going to a) prevent any progression from the leisure ride (or make it extremely difficult) and b) potentially deter new members and therefore growth of the club.

Therefore the feedback I'm after is why isn't anyone trying the fast ride? Even on the step up rides no one seems to be moving up/giving it a go? Any thoughts you have on why this is would be much appreciated. If you'd prefer to feedback in private please PM via @MattH on the forum (any feedback received this way will be treated in confidence).

Of course, we want to make sure everyone gets what they want out of the club and we'll do our best to ensure this with the review of ride bands, alongside any feedback and thoughts you have on the above.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers

Matt

Hi Matt

I'll run through all the points you have raised.

I advertised the ride at 16mph as every ride I have taken part in this year including the ones I have lead and the ones I haven't, have all been above 16mph. All the riders who attended regularly ride above 16mph. I would point out that I did check regularly that everyone was happy with the pace and backed the pace off as required. We did and always ride with a no drop policy and would have slowed the pace further if slower riders had attended.

I did do the first fast step up of the year on which there were only three of us (Steven and Scott). I have wanted to do all the step up rides but every one that I have been able to do has been cancelled due to no ride leaders being available. Other ones I have either been away or leading the Medium ride.

We did have a discussion today about the diffferent speed groups and all had the same opinion that whilst many of us are regularly riding above 17mph average, the fast group speed band of 17mph+ is a bit open ended i.e. Today's ride was advertised at 16+ but ended up over 18mph which would be too fast for most of us and is equally as off putting for those of us considering moving up.

I noticed that the Leisure ride was way above the advertised speed but know that Malcolm would have lead at the pace of the slowest riders.

I think the problem is that all the regulars of all the groups have improved over the last twelve months so the rides naturally run faster.

On a final point it is worth noting that all today's riders said that they really enjoyed the ride and were pleased with their performance.

I don't envy the committee members and the problem that the natural increase in pace has caused. I would also like the committee to know that I and other members I'm sure, really appreciate all their hard work and efforts in running this excellent club.

I hope these comments are helpful if you need more feedback, please feel free to ask.

Cheers, Guy

@MattH,

Thank you for raising the issue and seeking views. Here are my thoughts, trying to be as honest and open as possible...

As a group of riders, we have all improved over the last 12 months (a year ago I would have been pleased with a 16+mph ride of this length) and roughly in line with each other (if anything I'm probably one of the slower core medium riders now) and probably continue to improve at roughly the same rate. As far as I can see we all know what to expect and the pace suits us all. Of course, it does make it difficult for a rider to step up from the ride below.

But for the same reason there is at least the perception that it would be difficult to step up to the fast ride, even though we are good for 17+mph, because (certainly in my perception) the fast ride is routinely faster than 17mph, perhaps above 18mph. While I can do 17.3mph it is right on my current limit and I'd be worried joining the fast ride that I would slow everyone else down - and this would feel a bit selfish.

Also, the average speed of 17+ mph doesn't quite tell the full story, as took a break at the top of a couple of climbs we did today to catch our breath and recover a little.

We do have riders of different abilities join us and if I am honest I suspect once or twice it has sometimes felt as I describe above - i.e., the core group wanting to keep up the pace. (Once I was dropped on the way home - having not ridden for a few weeks - but I didn't mind knowing that everyone is trying to stretch themselves.)

Due to work commitments I find if difficult getting out in the week, meaning that the Sunday ride is generally the only ride I do each week. But that is why I so enjoy having the club and coming out, because it provides the incentive for me to get out of bed and get a good long ride in - and stretching myself to 17+mph gives me a lot of satisfaction.

I know how tricky this is and as @Woodwheels70 (Guy) says I don't envy the committee in working out how to approach this. I recognise that the current set up makes it difficult for people to step up to the next ride - but on the other hand it has felt rewarding us all improving together as a group. That said, if the club comes up with some ideas to try something different, I'd be happy to go along with it.

Maybe one simple thing is just to re-introduce/re-emphasise the existing step up rides, and maybe we should all be more open to trying them out.

These are just my opinions and I'd be very happy to discuss. You will also have @PaulW on the committee who I am sure can give some insight into the medium group.

James

That's really useful feedback, thanks @Woodwheels70 and @JamesT Exactly the type of stuff I was after to use for the review. Will come back to you on the points you've raise after the committee meeting (19/7).

If anyone else wants to add anything please do and thanks also to those people who have PM'd me.

Thanks everyone who has responded to Matt's query both publically and privately.

The challenge is that the medium ride is bracketed by the leisure and the fast. This means that these two can be open ended speeds whereas the medium has a defined range.

With the fast ride there is the expectation that the speed will be a minimum of 17mph avg but will depend on the riders present. As we have a very limited pool of riders in the fast group the speed can vary based on who attends. When there are only a couple of us there then we can zip along quite quickly with speeds of 18 or 19 being common. However, when there is a step up ride or when a rider can only hold 17mph for whatever reason then that is the speed we go. I guess in some ways it's no different to the medium as the pace there varies based on who is attending.
Not having spoken to Matt I would imagine that his comment is more centred on trying to keep the groups clearly defined so allowing any riders to step up to the next level and ride at it more frequently.
The whole idea of the club is to allow riders to improve and progress.

It would be wonderful if we had sufficient riders to justify a fourth group but we simply don't have the volume in my opinion. We already struggle to get sufficient riders out for a fast ride as it is.

If anyone has any flashes of inspiration as to how to resolve this quandary please message or speak to a member of the committee! We really do want to help all riders achieve their goals and progress should they wish to.

Many thanks
Stephen

@MattH I think James and Guy have summed things up very well.

I understand what you say about the numbers @StephenT but I think we clearly need a 14-16 and a 16-18.

@StephenT

I understand what you say about numbers but I do think that there is merit in looking at 4 possible groupings, less than 14, 14-16, 16-18 & 18+. This would definitely help riders want to look at the group above and I think you would be surprised how the groups would fill up. The top band i.e. Fast or elite would still be the one that would have the fewest numbers and if they so wished could join up with the 16-18 if short of numbers.

Difficult one for the committee but I believe you will find the right answer....

I also private messaged @MattH with a suggestion. It is pretty much the same as @Pdtinsley suggested-lower the fast classification to 16.5-17.5 and create a new Elite group of 18+. If not enough demand for Elite they could join the fast group.

It seems to me that at the weekends there are a fair number ok with 16-17, but no more. The leisure group actually rarely goes the published 11-13 but is normally 14-15.5. Midweek there are only occasionally enough for 2 rides and again , whatever the nominal ride category is, the speed is mostly 14-15.5.

Whatever boundaries you set there will be a fair number of people not best suited - I'm not convinced that a 16.5-17.5 fast classification will help, unless you create slower categories each covering a 1mph increment.

And there still needs to be a genuine slower category for those new to the club.

There clearly aren't enough club members to support 4 or 5 categories on a regular basis - but I think there is a case for more categories - but some only run once or twice a month.

With the leisure and medium groups both regularly running faster than the advertised speeds,perhaps then the classified speeds just need to be increased. This would though probably suit the current members but maybe deter new ones. The recent newbies in the medium have all coped ok with the groups regular speed. Is this the same for the leisure group?

Sunday's Leisure was advertised@ 12mph but would go the pace of the slowest rider.
As it turned out, we were pushed by a following wind for the first half and achieved 15.9 ave, riding as a close group and changing the lead.
Once the heading changed and the wind/fatigue came into play the speed was scrubbed off the average making it finish at 15.1 mph.
None of this was planned, but demonstrates how responding to the capabilities of attendees, can change the dynamics of an advertised ride.
We all have good and bad days, and often don't know in advance which way it is going to go, so there will always be an element of flexibility required.

As a ride leader the conclusion I have come to is that there should be more narrow speed bands, but those bands are combined into the 3 organised rides on the day when attendees are known. On occasion a group could go on a combined ride but split into bands by (speed) provided there is a willing volunteer to head the slower band, meeting up again at the route stop.
Example: A >18-20mph, B >16-18mph C >14-16mph, D >12-14 and leisure. On occasion A&B or B&C or C&D groupings could be made as one ride. In reality this is what is happening and what creates a split in a ride, but without the agreement at the start of the ride.
Controversial, probably. But I for one cannot see another way round it, so into the pot for consideration.
A big thanks to the committee for trying to address this issue. Not an easy one to solve, but you have our respect and support.

Another issue - to some extent, but certainly not wholey speed related, is women participation. It would be helpful to have female input to this debate.

I notice that no-one (including me) has actually answered the question of why more people aren't trying the step up rides. I think part of the issue might be the length/difficulty of the step up ride itself. Even if you are quite comfortable with (say) a fairly flat 40mile ride at 16mph, you might still be unwilling to risk a 50+mile ride which is a bit hilly, and will probably be going at 16.5+ - so I think the route chosen should be perhaps a bit less taxing than is the norm.
Even those who don't think they can go in the faster group on a regular basis might welcome the opportunity to push themselves a bit harder than normal occasionally.